ELIZABETH
Perfect, sabaidee.
MICKA
Sabaidee, madame.
ELIZABETH
Thank you, so much. Nice to see your wild and savage self. You have to be wild and savage to stay up late to zoom with someone across the world.
MICKA
Oh, really? No, I wouldn't be quiet yet tonight.
ELIZABETH
I hope not. When I first thought about Laos, it was because there was a job listing on a website called idealist.org. So, maybe that tells you something about me. But this was a real job website alongside you know, websites like monster.com, that were places you could upload a resume. So, I find a job in Laos on idealist.org. And it's the dream job, it's perfect. And it's to work on a textile project with an American living in Laos. And at the time, it didn't strike me as bizarre that he was asking me sometimes to get up at five in the morning to get on a phone call with him at 4pm which was his end of day. But, you know, he could have pushed it a little bit to maybe six or seven or even eight. But there I was multiple times getting up at 5am to speak to him at 4pm. And perhaps it should have been assigned. But I was crazy enough to do it and in the end, I did not work with him.
MICKA
Oh really?
ELIZABETH
But I'm accustomed to very early or very late calls to make a dream come true. So, you must be, or nightmare. You must be used to many late calls actually to do what you do.
MICKA
You're freezing. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I hope the connection will be okay. Because there is a storm outside and sometime when it's raining, connections lower. Yeah. But anyway. So, you were asking me what?
ELIZABETH
So I said, I said, You must have many late nights.
MICKA
No, I was somebody going to bed pretty late, reading or watching movies or stuff like that. Or drinking with friends, but since I'm father, not anymore. No, no, no me. But the just early morning they are on operation. So, you know, difficult to wake up.
ELIZABETH
That that is true that is true. Is it hard to coordinate with artists across the world?
MICKA
To coordinate what?
ELIZABETH
To coordinate artists across the world?
MICKA
Oh, yeah, you need to manage your time. You know, it's what you were saying. You know, sometime it's early morning because they got from the club or sometime it's late night. It's roughly late night actually. Yeah, most of the time. Yeah. Because so far, I didn't collaborate with Japanese but Japanese eventually, I called them in the morning because it's afternoon. Over there, so. No, no, it's okay.
ELIZABETH
All right. Well, anyway, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. It's good. And for me, it's nice to see you. In person.
MICKA
In person, not really, but
ELIZABETH
Almost, almost. Yeah. So, we can just chat so, you know, it can flow. I'm just recording from the beginning. Because sometimes the best part happens when you're not recording. Actually, usually the best part happens when you're not recording.
MICKA
Are you expecting me to write with my chemise, but having my underwear under the table like they do on TV? No. Sorry.
ELIZABETH
You can give us a surprise at the end if you want.
MICKA
Why I'm not showing you a good advertising for the festival anyway.
ELIZABETH
Okay, you know, these are unprecedented times, Micka. So, I think many things are acceptable now that were not before. As long as you get the job done.
MICKA
Yeah, right away.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. Okay, so we are talking and connected because the National Jazz Museum in Harlem has contacted you to connect artists in Laos, who play jazz to celebrate International Jazz Day. I was surprised to learn that in 1972, Duke Ellington arrives in Vientiane, Laos, against the backdrop of the Vietnam War. And he plays, he performed. And I suppose it was a form of American diplomacy to do such a thing. But maybe, you know, a little bit about this concert. I read, it was said that he was, he and his band were excellent ambassadors and representatives of America.
MICKA
Yeah, actually, at that time, you know, Washington they used to ask some American artists to go to see their voice or around the world. And at that time, Duke was with his band, they went to play in Jordan I think. Bangkok. And actually, Vientiane was not supposed to be on the tour. What I understood is that, as you know, officially, America was not in Laos, right? So, it's rather the guys with the ribbon and or why your chemise will manage to bring Duke from Bangkok. With the army big plane. And they arrived there about which one hour. So, when they were here, everything was set up in the stadium about 500 meters from my house. And they played and I went back to, to Bangkok. So yes, the Duke played, yeah. So by the way, one day, when will we be a bit bigger, I want to organize a festival in this stadium.
ELIZABETH
That's a good goal.
MICKA
That would be. Yeah, it would be a good symbol.
ELIZABETH
So, can you tell us how did the international Jazz Festival in Vientiane start?
MICKA
It started because, you know, I really like this music, right? I listen to it since, oh, yes, it's about 35 years ago. And I've decided to organize something. This is beginning something. Because as you may know, there is not much happening here. But culture in general are in touch with Larry Jazz, you know, as I say, the Americans, they didn't come here officially. So, of course it changed, as in Vietnam, or in Thailand, regarding this music during the 60s. So, then no culture of jazz in this country. And I was a bit frustrated. And sometime, you know, in life, if you want something you do, you're by yourself. You don't wait for people to do it. So actually, this festival, basically, and initially, it was a big, a big coup of association? I wanted to, I wanted to see contents of jazz, so I did it. And the first edition, I inscribe our tiny, tiny events in bound restaurants, on the page of the jus de UNESCO. And we were very surprised that we had 250 visitors. So, we were very surprised and happy. It was a very good night. So, I think it was enough enthusiastic that I was, I thought, okay, I'll do it again. And step by step, boop boop, boop, boop, boop. We had grown like this. So, it's good for this country? Yeah.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. And it helps when you as the founder, who has an idea is your number one consumer.
MICKA
Of course.
ELIZABETH
You were so motivated to do it because you had a selfish motivation, which I think is a good motivation in this case. Even you don't want the product you're selling you have a problem.
MICKA
Well, after that, you know, it's what, what is very interesting, of course, at the beginning Lao Jazzanova was part of it, the first edition. And since, they always play at and it was some Lao people in the public, but to be honest, it was maybe 20% not even sure. And this percentage has grown a lot. So, now we have reached last time it was, yeah, roughly 50% I guess. So, it's a very good sign. Very good sign.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. That's something that's really interesting. I think about the International Jazz Festival. Is that on one hand, you know, the International Convention on Cluster Munitions happened in 2010. And I was there filming a very short documentary called Buying Back the Bombs that ARTICLE22 made funded by Kickstarter. And it was really to present the jewelry that's transformed from shrapnel, to explain to the public, why this is even happening, and we were there at the convention on cluster munitions, and it was the very first international conference that the government of Laos had ever hosted. And it was really an important moment because it marked Laos not just as a victim of the legacy of 80 million unexploded bombs, but it also, you know, transformed the dynamic into Laos as a leader in helping to do something to clear them. And also to take a stand on the fact that these weapons cluster munitions should be banned. But this history in Laos, sometimes overshadows the depth of interest there is in the country, the place, the people, the beauty, the food, even local music and customs and temples and traditions, and festivals. And what I think is so beautiful, is that you're using music as a vehicle to engage local community, as well as shine a light on Laos and Vientiane in particular, which sometimes is, you know, shaded by the glory of Luang Prabang. And so it's very interesting that you chose Laos, because you said, it's the other day when we were talking about a place where, well, nothing and everything can happen. But, then also you chose Vientiane. And so it would be interesting to know what you think about you know, why are you wanting to do this, in Laos in Vientiane? Do you see yourself as playing a role in bringing people together in an unconventional way to start conversations through music? What is your dream, in terms of who you present on that stage?
MICKA
First, I don't want to think and I don't think I have kind of high range mission in here. I keep going and if after, when I will be older, I realized that, oh, at the end, it was good for this or this or that, I will be happy. But, for now, I don't want to think about all this, too much. I don't want to think too much of this. These good aspects. I mean, you know, these concepts, because the risk is that my own and proper selfishness will be even bigger. So, I don't want to you know, I want to keep it humble and moderate first and after I will see, but I want to see results, you know, because it's something to have kind of big ideas like this. You know, it's very motivating, inspiring, and so on. But, I think this is the facts that counts, you know, it's not what you make it up, you know, so I rather act, and after, when it will be time to, to think about it, really I will. But, for now, I prefer to keep low profile.
ELIZABETH
You did still define the festival by a word. Panache?
MICKA
Ah what is it? Okay, so well, panache is a French word, as you know. So, panache initially, it used to be plume, you know that the jungler man, they had on their heart. So, the bigger it was, the better it was. So, it's a bit, it's a way to, of course, not again, being Frenchie, arrogant and blah, blah, blah. This is not that. No, it's more to act in a way that you do it with, despite the obstacles, despite the environment, despite the people who don't want you to do what you are doing. And yeah, it's to overcome obstacles. And it's as well to realize what we could call impossible dream. You know, it's to reach it, to catch it, to put it in your arm and run, this is panache. And, of course, you try to do it with elegance even though I'm not the sometimes the more elegant person, but I'm trying to, as well, it's one way for me to select some artists, you know, and I give you an example. It happens sometimes that some artists they cancel their concert two weeks before the event. It happened. Generally, it's not the artists, most of the time agents. So, it's quite difficult situation, right. And it happened to me that I have called French pianist Johan de Ville. And he quite liked the idea, which was three weeks before the concert. And after three hours, and then he called you back and said, okay, we are coming. Already for something. After that, he's a local bassist. He has land invention in the morning. He had lunch. At two o'clock. He was making the soundcheck, the night he was playing, and the Sunday he flies back to Paris. So, this guy even saw the weekend in Vientiane to play. This is panache, you know. It's easy to forget, the jetlag is to be happy to play in this Russian circus. You know, it's just for their own experience to have something different, you know, so, yeah, the panache, this is it. It's really the opposite of two things. All my life is good enough, I stop here. No, no, no, no, no, is to go further. You know, to go deeper.
ELIZABETH
Driven by curiosity.
MICKA
Exactly, yeah. Yeah, it should be the opposite of what's happening right now everywhere. And basically. So, that's why I think this festival should be supported by United Nation. I mean, we're all doing good for people. Anyway, yeah.
ELIZABETH
The Russian circus every day, I was in Laos, almost, when I first got there in 2008. I rode the bicycle I was borrowing from the handcraft studio Nikon just down the road. The Russian circus. And so how did you decide that that's the venue. It's very special.
MICKA
It's very simple. Long time ago, it was in 2002, French artists went to play here in this circus was with the French Institute's at the time and I was working for them at the time. And this artist, he went to play in the circus. And at that time, it was a newer, but what I liked is with this building, it's already that it's like a show porch, you know, a pot of soup, you know, from outside, or like a UFO or something, you know, and you enter in it and it's magical. It's the acoustic is a bit strange, and the decoration is a bit old school of course, you know, but there is a real charm, a real charm. And what I like is that it's popular, you know, because while it's true, there is not often some shows or even circus that is popular, you know, it's not, it's still present of this very nice and proper, precise design, showrooms, you know, live concert rooms, you know, with 1000s of people, blah, blah, blah. Now it's a bit the opposite, but there is a great potential in it. And so, the next step will be to find people who are crazy enough to follow me and show me a very, very nice showroom from this circus. I think, because you know, it's the idea would be to make a round stage and it would be unique, you know, it would be unique.
ELIZABETH
It's on the map in Vientiane when you go and you have it as a tourist, you see the Russian circus there. And I remember that, at that time when I was there in 2008, they were still just putting street signs up in certain places, many places, didn't have street signs, so those iconic buildings were so important as landmarks, when you are giving someone directions to explain where to go. So, it is a very particular building that actually looks like a circus with this sort of tented roof. And, you know it if you're a falong expat, or if you're a local.
MICKA
But the good thing with the circus, you know, it's that the Russian they have built it at the end of the 80s, early 90s, but end of 1980s. So, I contacted them already to get back the plan of the building. So, potentially, you know, when I like with this, it's the same for the festival, I like to, to push a bit, the embassies, you know, to, you know, to take care of these little things we have all together, you know, so I have great, great feeling with the Russians regarding this. And, you know, sometimes you work with them, but, I’m not supposed to do it. No, because I don't have really, can I say legitimacy to do so I found, so I respect that. But anyway, I do it. And sometimes embassies, they are a bit surprised, but they, after a while, they all go to this direction. It's what I like, you know, it's what I like to push people to meet and do something together. Because we are in Vientiane. Outside of Vientiane with them, it wouldn't be possible.
ELIZABETH
I mean, music has always been a unifying force.
MICKA
Yeah, for sure.
ELIZABETH
You know, political movements, social movements, sometimes it's a tool used by the government to encourage good things and bad things, to relay a particular image. But it does unify us because it makes us feel things that we can all feel. And that comes down to something very simple, which is just the human nature that defines us. I find it very interesting, the way you use the word you know, popular because I think you mean it in almost a very French way. In relation to unifying society and I find the way you communicate about the festival, so beautiful and unifying and inclusive, and I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the cards that have been distributed in Vientiane as invitations, and then the photographs that you've taken with different people all around the city, holding them and one of them says, "So what?"
MICKA
Yeah, this campaign was for the last edition. We had this idea with Albert Leeflang, my designer and he took care of the design printing and he went to shoot these people in the street to take the chair. And so, we have chosen the some famous title of jazz. So, what my favorite things and of course, the people holding the sculpt, they don't have any idea what it is. But it's okay. But you know, what they like with this adventure, jazz adventure here is that I like to remind people that jazz is coming from the low great people, you know. Quite often we forget that it comes from the low past of this society. And I like to remind this, because it gives them, it gives back something to the people. Because today, nowadays, these people, they don't listen to jazz, of course, even in western you now, because jazz is now for the elites, you know, even though it's not true, normally, right? And I really think that jazz is interesting to, to touch some inner zones of people of the person, you know. There is things interesting and sweet to listen to. And as well, there is some pieces who are difficult to listen. It's a good teaching, you know, and as well, there is this interesting part of improvisation. And improvisation in life is important. Sometimes, you know, even though you work hard, because you don't improvise it like this, you need to work hard before to improvisation. So, all the teaching around jazz is very interesting, even for the poor people, and they are able to understand that. Just that the mass media, they don't anymore give space for this music. Because nobody listen to this music anymore. And in the mass money of entertainment is not interested by that anymore. And it's a pity. It's a pity. So that's why I say I there. I don't decorate really, but financially, yes, I take that. And I think it's, it's very good to do it, you know, it's to give to, to these people and it's even more true in Laos. Because in Laos, you imagine that they never knew this music. So, even it's more particular, you know, because they hear is totally out of it, you know? So, even though improvisation in the traditional music as a big part, you know, so there is something here now regarding improvisation.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, you're right, that we are so focused today on the result rather than the process. And even with the way social media often presents people individuals as their best selves, as they're the best version of themselves. But that's, that's not reality, necessarily. And improvisation is the way you get to a result that you want, or it is the result. It is the result, sometimes that improvisation is incredible, and sometimes that improvisation is not so good. But that failed improvisation, that sound that doesn't quite sound right, gets the musician, the player, to the point where the next time it's appreciated. And you're right, very much that entrepreneurship is like that, but we have this obsession, especially in the United States where, you know, businesses have to be gigantic, and they have to be unicorns. And actually, there has to be so many failures, either within businesses or the entrepreneur who starts a business has had to have failures prior in order to eventually succeed. So, celebrating improvisation is something that it's a lost art a little bit, and if you can do it through music, it's a very good lesson.
MICKA
You know, on this command, he said that jazz was there. He said it quite early. He was right. He was right on some point, but he didn't know that jazz would mutate at these points, because today mutate a lot, all along is a big story. And I'm quite happy that jazz is like fun to me and I wish that we have a lot of mutants, you know. Yeah. But you know regarding the communication of the 50, I'm very happy to have found this guy is the great guy, you know, and he is a very particular person. You know, in the team, we are all a bit. Yeah, all a bit special, I would say, it's what people say about us. But we are happy like this. And it works. We have good, very good relation. It's good.
ELIZABETH
It sounds like you're operating in the spirit of jazz in that case. I mean, I was reading a little bit about Duke Ellington, and how before he got to Laos, he had been traveling all over the Middle East as well. And he created the album Far East, that was very much inspired by his travels and included sounds and instrumentation that were very different. I suppose that there's this added layer of interest for the Lao jazz musicians who are having different jazz musicians, from all different countries come to Laos, maybe share a little bit about Lao Jazzanova and their sound and how they integrate. What would be considered traditional jazz sounds with their own kind of cultural traditional music?
MICKA
Yeah. So, Fruity is quite the interesting guy. He's a special person. And, you know, this young generation because there is no teacher here. So, he had some classes when you could live Laos, of course, but otherwise, he has learned as many kids nowadays, he has learned on YouTube and online. And he is in the process of a, you know, in a process for running after the super technique, the atrocity and to follow up with the super solo of Mr. West Montgomery, or from Mr. Joe Pass, or Mr. I don't know who you know. So, he's in a process, but I can see that now that he has this technical background, I think he will start to, to drill a bit, to drill his own identity, his own style, and his identity is Laos. So, the thing he will more and more go deeper inside this is music that he's from his country, there is many types of music in Laos because there is no one type, because there is a lot of ethnic group, so he has plenty of work to do, a lot of work.
ELIZABETH
Now that that's interesting, because if you look at a Picasso painting and you don't know that actually Picasso could paint the most precise, studio style portraits, and his technique was so so studied, and educated and practiced. But that foundation was what allowed him to depart from it. And it sounds like Lao Jazzanova and Fruity are at the point where they're on the cusp of maybe becoming more, infusing their music with more local style, but they're still dedicated to getting the basis and the foundation.
MICKA
Exactly, which is good, which is good. But of course, I will not at all, allow me to give them some advice. I will always push them to go to the bush, with their recorder and so on.
ELIZABETH
Well, it's like what you said that people don't realize how much work improvisation takes. And the same is true for creativity. You have to have a base to be creative from.
MICKA
Yeah, you need the foundation, you need to. Even to further to write properly, French or English I mean in let's say a stylish way, if you have problems to write the sentence without mistakes and if you don't know how to write properly, I mean, we style, it means that, okay, it was your choice, but it means that you might never write properly, a love letter, for example, or letter of complaint, you know, is good argumentation. And this is roughly the same thing. If you don't have full control of your tool, you can't build up a house. It's impossible. So, improvisation, this is it. You know, there was a time, I would say, after free jazz, people think that free jazz, it was free. No, it's what we are saying it's exactly like Picasso or using his skills to break it. And free jazz with it, but some people they made a mistake, they thought that technique is not useful, necessarily. Well, you're not remote, you don't remember them. I mean, that's it. I used to meet the young people in a jazz school in France. I was a drummer and I remember some students, they were, they were not happy to work on technique because they thought that they will find the proper solo or proper break at that time and so on, but it never happened. Never. You need to work first. A lot. A lot.
ELIZABETH
Duke Ellington, I was reading a jazz book to my little daughter. You know, he was taught sheet music. Initially, he was playing everything by ear and just improvising in an innocent way in the best way just his own curiosity led him to, to play and make sounds that were interesting, but still needed that foundation and learn how to write, read sheet music, and then was able to compose, so yeah, there are steps to be taken. And so now that you, the International Jazz Festival, Vientiane have a connection to the International Jazz Museum in Harlem, can you envision something blossoming from there? How is that meaningful for you?
MICKA
Oh, yeah, that's for sure. It's, it's very good for us because now we start to have a real contact on the motherland. And this country where it's coming from, we have tried before, but without much success. Anyway, now we have one step there. And at the same time, you know, it's like, when you start, you're on point to start a jam session with some musicians, you know, roughly their pedigree, but you never know, if it's gonna work, if the magic will, will be here, at that time on the stage. And I think I'm here right now, but I think both of us we speak to, I think, why now, and I think it's gonna work. So yeah, we are happy. And we are happy because it's a kind of honor. I mean, we are far, I would say something certain to president we are in the shithole of the world. So, and we are very happy about it. And so far, it is good because maybe we will be on the map now, and maybe some artists coming from America they we know that we are here, so they can start whenever they want. But, one day we we are planning to go to visit the museum of course.
ELIZABETH
Excellent. I look forward to hosting you. I hope you're ready for me when COVID ends.
MICKA
You're sure?
ELIZABETH
I'm there. That's the last question. So you you spend a year preparing the festival. So, COVID has obviously affected the festival in 2020. Do you see any silver linings in this? Have there been any advantages? Obviously, across the world, the arts have suffered greatly.
MICKA
Okay, so in 2020, I postponed it, but just I consult, I was very frustrated with that, because we had a good and very nice lineup with a very difficult musical setup on the lineup, so it was very frustrating. But anyway, you know, the worst situation is not the artists themselves, it's not for us actually. So, this year, we are planning to do something in October, I think local precisely with this traditional musicians, if COVID allow me I will go in the bush of Laos to find some very, very particular musicians and bring them to Vientiane. Some of them, of course, they never came to Vientiane. It will be very mystical experience, I think, because all of them they are in connection with spirits. Because it's not the music that they play for tourists and music for holy things, and esoteric things. It's very particular with ghosts. So, we'll be interesting to see them and having a ceremony before to play during the festival, to ask the spirits if they can play or not. So, the idea would be to bring them in, make them work, if the spirit except to make them work with loungers, and with some other artists, and try to mix up something. And again, if COVID allow us we might, we might invite some regional artists, Vietnam, Bangkok, Singapore maybe. But, you know, what I have explained to some sponsors that maybe it's procedurally in this type of very difficult period, that it's interesting to, to clean up the table and, and think about what they have done before and to whom they have given their help, their sponsor. Because I think after such a difficult period, these type of music can be a great cure, can be a great way to let the soul climb again, a bit higher, to go to go higher again. I think some people they understand that, you know, in the corporate world, in the private sector, I think they understand that, but of course, they are very prudent. Which I understand that. I think if I would be in their shoes, I would consider these aspects. And so, I want to be very prudent when I will go to see some sponsors in the way that, I know it's COVID, so you can't really do something and i don't think so i think this is the moment, this is a great chance for many people to discover something, you know, about their own profession. And eventually, as well as some invitees, you know, basically, for everybody to good moments to, think about what has been done before. And maybe to do something better after, I don't know, it is easy to say. I mean, you know, I'm not working in your speedo right now. So I am conscious, I'm aware about it that. I won't be prudent because of COVID, meaning in my approach to the organization. But of course, right now in Laos, we are fully in the outbreak for the first time, so wow and not really, I just hope he won't be tour AV otherwise it will take months to come back to, let's say no more. Yeah, so I don't know. But anyway, if yes, the worst case would be that we will do something virtual, still very exciting, though, but at least to do something.
ELIZABETH
We'll be here to share it if you're able to do something virtual.
MICKA
Yeah. Okay.
ELIZABETH
Because I think you're right. Art has an ability to heal, and to do so in a way that transcends languages and nationalities. And I think Mother Nature has benefited from fewer carbon emissions and lower consumption levels and she is healing in some ways, and I think humanity has an option, despite this very real health crisis. But definitely our interconnection through technology has been reinforced and hopefully, that will be one positive legacy of the pandemic. And we'll be so happy to share and be connected with your efforts to use art to change the world in some ways, very small and large. And as Dostoevsky said, he said beauty will save the world. So I tried to believe that.
MICKA
I spoke to Fruity today the guitarist of Lao Jazzanova and so they're really looking forward to see the video because they didn't see. And they are really happy that over there in New York, USA. A bit the scared as well, of course. It's good for them. It's very good. That's very nice.
ELIZABETH
Well, thank you so much, Mika for your time. All right, Micka. I should go, you should because it's late, but that was fun. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I loved it.
MICKA
Well, we can do it when you want. Okay.
ELIZABETH
All right. We talk soon. Goodbye ciao ciao.
MICKA
Ciao.
